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Just recap from one of my trading seminar session, one trader instructor touch on trading room topic….he asked the audience to google search “trading room” pictures….look at all the screens in the pictures….ask us a question “do you always see a lot of different indicators in the screen?” Maybe thats why currency index/strength is what the traders look at…..just some thoughts
Thanks, I search under image. Did see what u said, thx.
But most of the banks or trading floor image are too small to actually see what is on their screen. Whereas normally traders like us are mostly indicators on their screen.
If anyone don’t mind, can u pls attach a picture or many pictures of their screen? thanks in advance
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by .
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by .
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comNaked chart IS an indicator ! Do you think that banks look at the same chart as yours? when was the last time you visited a major bank trading room? As to different opinions on something: that’s perfectly Ok with me. What makes me wonder about others opinion is how they come to “definit” conclusion of things are built or constructed without knowing how they are actualy built. Following this way of thinking might lead me to believe that each flying bird must have a Boeing engine up her ass… G.
Hi gg53, Do u mind explaining what do u mean by Q1) Naked chart IS an indicator ! Q2) And what charts does the banks see? Thanks & Best Regards, LearnAlways
The banks see “true” interbank prices from various sources (fractional differences between them).
The broker receive his liquidators (banks) prices + premium. Those prices are, again, slightly different from one another according to different banks, bids and Ask.
The broker shows you the more and most “expensive” prices and adds his premium (spread) to it.
The rate of “Ticks” (price changes) is also based on the broker’s decision.
The above should answer both Q #1 & #2.
G.
Hi gg53, Do u mind explaining what do u mean by Q1) Naked chart IS an indicator ! Q2) And what charts does the banks see? Thanks & Best Regards, LearnAlways
The banks see “true” interbank prices from various sources (fractional differences between them). The broker receive his liquidators (banks) prices + premium. Those prices are, again, slightly different from one another according to different banks, bids and Ask. The broker shows you the more and most “expensive” prices and adds his premium (spread) to it. The rate of “Ticks” (price changes) is also based on the broker’s decision. The above should answer both Q #1 & #2. G.
Thanks gg53 for the above explanation, greatly appreciate it. By the way is there any way to break them or better yet go with their flow???
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comTake a closer look – cc you posted is not the same… Look at the far left when in mine GBP crosses the USD and yours doesn’t, and a bunch of other diffs… G.
The two charts are not exactly lined up over each other. Compare by using the candles where they cross.
Align them to fit this…
G.
Hi gg53, Do u mind explaining what do u mean by Q1) Naked chart IS an indicator ! Q2) And what charts does the banks see? Thanks & Best Regards, LearnAlways
The banks see “true” interbank prices from various sources (fractional differences between them). The broker receive his liquidators (banks) prices + premium. Those prices are, again, slightly different from one another according to different banks, bids and Ask. The broker shows you the more and most “expensive” prices and adds his premium (spread) to it. The rate of “Ticks” (price changes) is also based on the broker’s decision. The above should answer both Q #1 & #2. G.
Thanks gg53 for the above explanation, greatly appreciate it. By the way is there any way to break them or better yet go with their flow???
Yes, bypass the broker and connect directly to interbank stream.
It costs a few $K per month, but worth every penny….
G.
Hi gg53, Do u mind explaining what do u mean by Q1) Naked chart IS an indicator ! Q2) And what charts does the banks see? Thanks & Best Regards, LearnAlways
The banks see “true” interbank prices from various sources (fractional differences between them). The broker receive his liquidators (banks) prices + premium. Those prices are, again, slightly different from one another according to different banks, bids and Ask. The broker shows you the more and most “expensive” prices and adds his premium (spread) to it. The rate of “Ticks” (price changes) is also based on the broker’s decision. The above should answer both Q #1 & #2. G.
Thanks gg53 for the above explanation, greatly appreciate it. By the way is there any way to break them or better yet go with their flow???
Yes, bypass the broker and connect directly to interbank stream. It costs a few $K per month, but worth every penny…. G.
Do u mind providing more details? Is it like using a broker like CitiFX?
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comJust recap from one of my trading seminar session, one trader instructor touch on trading room topic….he asked the audience to google search “trading room” pictures….look at all the screens in the pictures….ask us a question “do you always see a lot of different indicators in the screen?” Maybe thats why currency index/strength is what the traders look at…..just some thoughts
Thanks, I search under image. Did see what u said, thx. But most of the banks or trading floor image are too small to actually see what is on their screen. Whereas normally traders like us are mostly indicators on their screen.
You won’t see indicators there, because they don’t really “trade”.
They have orders to buy or sell $XXX according to their customers need, and don’t have much choice.
The only thing they need to do is to buy or sell at the best price within their time limit.
On large orders – they will manipulate the market. If they need to buy 50 milion USD, they will SELL 1 mil every few minutes to drop the price, and then start to buy at a cheaper price – again in small chunks.
A bank dealer is measured by its ability to buy/sell at a “good” prices.
A “good” price for a “Buy” is below VWAP.
G.
Hi gg53, Do u mind explaining what do u mean by Q1) Naked chart IS an indicator ! Q2) And what charts does the banks see? Thanks & Best Regards, LearnAlways
The banks see “true” interbank prices from various sources (fractional differences between them). The broker receive his liquidators (banks) prices + premium. Those prices are, again, slightly different from one another according to different banks, bids and Ask. The broker shows you the more and most “expensive” prices and adds his premium (spread) to it. The rate of “Ticks” (price changes) is also based on the broker’s decision. The above should answer both Q #1 & #2. G.
Thanks gg53 for the above explanation, greatly appreciate it. By the way is there any way to break them or better yet go with their flow???
Yes, bypass the broker and connect directly to interbank stream. It costs a few $K per month, but worth every penny…. G.
Do u mind providing more details? Is it like using a broker like CitiFX?
I was joking…
Even if you connect to interbank network – 1 MINIMAL lot is 5 milion. USD.
That’s why banks doesn’t want us as direct customers and rather deal with brokers as a pool of tradedrs and to manage their margin.
G.
[quote quote=5504]
. A “good” price for a “Buy” is below VWAP. G.
I was joking… Even if you connect to interbank network – 1 MINIMAL lot is 5 milion. USD. That’s why banks doesn’t want us as direct customers and rather deal with brokers as a pool of tradedrs and to manage their margin. G. [/quote]
Haha, you got me, very funny
. I thought u got some secret weapon.Q) What does VWAP stands for???
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.com[quote quote=5504]
. A “good” price for a “Buy” is below VWAP. G.
I was joking… Even if you connect to interbank network – 1 MINIMAL lot is 5 milion. USD. That’s why banks doesn’t want us as direct customers and rather deal with brokers as a pool of tradedrs and to manage their margin. G.
Haha, you got me, very funny
. I thought u got some secret weapon. Q) What does VWAP stands for??? [/quote]VWAP = Volume Weighted Average Price.
It’s a measure of at what price is the largest volume of trades right now.
You can see it in every decent “Market Profile” or Market Statistics” indicator for MQ4.
G.
Haha, you got me, very funny
. I thought u got some secret weapon. Q) What does VWAP stands for???VWAP = Volume Weighted Average Price. It’s a measure of at what price is the largest volume of trades right now. You can see it in every decent “Market Profile” or Market Statistics” indicator for MQ4. G. [/quote]
Isn’t by plainly looking at candlestick height (pips) the same as market profile??? If so why then do we need to put market profile, I mean what is the purpose or objective?
Sorry to ask as my chart is full of indicators thus I like to ask myself this kinda question before putting one, to make it simpler.
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comHaha, you got me, very funny
. I thought u got some secret weapon. Q) What does VWAP stands for???VWAP = Volume Weighted Average Price. It’s a measure of at what price is the largest volume of trades right now. You can see it in every decent “Market Profile” or Market Statistics” indicator for MQ4. G.
Isn’t by plainly looking at candlestick height (pips) the same as market profile??? If so why then do we need to put market profile, I mean what is the purpose or objective? Sorry to ask as my chart is full of indicators thus I like to ask myself this kinda question before putting one, to make it simpler. [/quote]
candlestick doesnt show you where most of the trades volume is or was.
Did you put the attached indie from my previous msg? try it – and then decide if you need it or not.
That’s one of the tools to follow what the “Elephants” are doing.
G.
I did put it on my chart trying to understand what u r saying. Pls see attached pic. Background color is HA in higher TF thus candlestick height is measured in terms of higher TF not current, I mean almost same info, but look at the huge spike back. The market profile seems to be like some sort of bollinger band meaning it shows volume starts to increase when price is on one side of the band. volume is low when price is congested awaiting for breakout. Sorry, might be wrong. Personal Interpretation.
Maybe u could kindly explain how to use this volume weighted average price. Thanks in advance.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by .
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by .
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by .
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comLearnAlways,
You should setup this indie at the start of a day or start of a session (broker’s time) to work properly.
“Market Profile” or “Market Statistics” & VWAP is too big subject, with many details, to explain here.
Good (and entertaining …) videos on the subject can be found here (mostly SWF format):
G.
Naked chart IS an indicator !
Yes, of course I completely agree. I never said that it isn’t an indicator. Therefore its the only indicator that I need unless there is an indicator that can tell me something more than what this indicator already tells me. If you got something, I would love to see it.. mind sharing it?
Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
Take a closer look – cc you posted is not the same… Look at the far left when in mine GBP crosses the USD and yours doesn’t, and a bunch of other diffs… G.
The two charts are not exactly lined up over each other. Compare by using the candles where they cross.
Align them to fit this… G.
You know that indicator got a couple of settings
just need to change MA settings and you will end up with different results.. anyways, I’m done arguing about this. Arguments can lose friendships and lets not go there
Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
Take a closer look – cc you posted is not the same… Look at the far left when in mine GBP crosses the USD and yours doesn’t, and a bunch of other diffs… G.
The two charts are not exactly lined up over each other. Compare by using the candles where they cross.
Align them to fit this… G.
You know that indicator got a couple of settings
just need to change MA settings and you will end up with different results.. anyways, I’m done arguing about this. Arguments can lose friendships and lets not go there I suggest you waste your time trying all possible combinations of that CC indicator. It’s easy to do with MT4 optimization, and try to come up with EXACT match.
That’s going to be very fruitfull, contributing, and a step forward for this discussion…
On a more serious note, and to that forum subject (at last…):
I drew some guidelines, scattered all over this forum, how such indicator should be constructed.
Want to discuss this here?
contribute your thoughts and ideas ?
I’m here to participate, comment and try to contribute as much as I can.
If you want to turn this into one of FF forums, where good things “blow-up” after xx pages – good luck with that! In this case, you won’t find me participating here, in this forum.
Now it’s up to you how this discussion is going to continue, if at all.
G.
Naked chart IS an indicator !
Yes, of course I completely agree. I never said that it isn’t an indicator. Therefore its the only indicator that I need unless there is an indicator that can tell me something more than what this indicator already tells me. If you got something, I would love to see it.. mind sharing it?
The price chart or “indicator” have ONLY two things to show you:
Price on the Y axis and Time on the X axis – per currency pair.
“Price” is your “friend”,
“Time” is your “Enemy”.
That’s too little info to trade. ALL standard indicators are just following the price, and lagging.
In order to gain more info to trade with more confident you need to gather info in some other places, which are not so obvious, such as:
Inter-relations among currency pairs
Deduct from that the inter-relations among individual currencies
Correlations among currency pairs
Volume (yeah, I know, there is no such thing…)
Market cycles and patterns
Economic Fundementals
Market share
Market sentiment and “fear” factor
“Elephants” behaviour
….and a few more …
Naked chart and price-action is just not enough. It is constantly manipulated, not specifically against you, but to serve others interests.
If you are using indicators – they MUST have some adaptability features built into them. NONE of the standard indicators have that feature.
….That was a too long post… I’m tired…
G.
I’m not here to enforce any rules. As we know, this thread is for talking about currency strength. We can have another discussion elsewhere on naked charts vs something else but its a discussion that I would rather not have because it comes down to personal preference and what one is good with. I can write a long page proving my point but all that comes down to is personal preference and what one is good with. If naked charts aren’t enough for you, then its not enough for you. If it’s enough for another, then its enough for another.
Anyways, about currency strength…
I started thinking about the strength differently after reading naked charts because I saw certain patterns. If you look at the thread I started on trend trading, you will see how I sort of measure or get an idea about bull vs bear strength to tell me which direction to place the trade. From that, I began constructing a new indicators trying to do what I was doing in my head but across multiple currency pairs to sort of create a currency strength indicator.
What frustrated me is how currency index type indicators were being called currency strength indicators when they were just a direct reflection of the price chart. What you have GG is something that I have no idea about. It certainly looks better than the CC indicator that I shared. I also have about 5-10 different “currency strength” indicators that I have built over the years that are based on CCIs, WPRs, Momentum, etc to list just a few. I went through a phase of just making “currency strength” indicators for a few months back in the day. And I say “currency strength” because I thought that’s what I was making but recently I realized how improper this title was because it was showing me nothing but a refection of price filtered in some way and I couldn’t predict anything. I honestly have no clue what your indicator is doing since I haven’t seen the code nor do I have it on my computer to look at. But from the looks of it, to me, it looked like a direct reflection of the price, and that is really great! I don’t doubt that. It looks really good and I’m sure it serves a great purpose in your trading.
Sometimes I can sound very direct and blunt and I apologize for that. These days I have so little time with my new job and I’m always in the rush to write something quick without properly addressing things and thinking of the others feelings. I understand that this indicator that you made and been using for years and when you have referred to it all this time as a currency strength indicator and then you see me coming around calling it a currency index indicator, I’m sure that upset you.. it would upset me. I didn’t mean to do that nor did I mean to judge it. I am in no position to judge your indicator. I hope you accept my apology. I highly value you being here and its an honor. You are the reason why I even made this site in the first place. It was to develop that fractal arrows indicator with a closed group of people.
I will write more about the way I’m measuring currency strength later when I have a bit more time
Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
My Brothers, I Always Admire both of You.. for all the great knowledge that You share.. please continue this very important discussion.. until we could reach valuable result that will give benefit to our beloved community at this forum…
Wish both of You All the Best..
MTH
Intuition, Experiences and Common sense..
http://www.binaryoptionsedge.com/Ok, let’s roll our sleeves…
1. Naked chart is not the way to go. You already admitted that you use some sort of Bull/Bear in some trials – and that’s NOT naked chart.
2. “Currency Strength” indicator should have PREDICTIVE nature (at least on smaller TF’s).
3. Based on #2 above – it can’t use standard MA’s, CCI, WPR, etc. – because (lagging, lagging, lagging…)
4. “True” currency strength should manifest itself on other, related, currency pairs.
5. In order to avoid the inter-relations effect among currencies we need some EXTERNAL “anchoring” (KIAD’s terminlogy – already discussed here) as reference.
6. Question: Does individual currency “market share” factor should be used? is it logical?
7. Question: When comparing currency pairs, should we use currency pairs “crosses? my experience shows that they introduce “noise”, but I’m open to others logic.
8. Question: How to deal with “Rate of Change”?
9. Question: How to deal/incorporate with the attached chart?
10. Ultimate goal should be a SCANNER, suggesting best pairs to trade, direction, and with timestamp of entry.
Any more ideas?
G.
In order to be truly predictive, and not rely on price-action, you should ask yourself:
What are the most earliest signals that a currency is strengthening (or getting weaker)?
We don’t need ALL the obvious signs (too late and not predictive), just the 2-3 earliest signs.
G.
1. Naked chart is not the way to go. You already admitted that you use some sort of Bull/Bear in some trials – and that’s NOT naked chart.
Bull bear strength I determine from the candles and not with an indicator, so naked candle chart to be exact i guess.. I use trend-lines and I circle areas of strength but that alone proved to be superior than all the indicators I have used based on my own person experience and based on my personality
I just didn’t find a good indicator after years of developing them and using many others have developed that gave me an edge.. to me I found indicators to be confusing and distorting the reality and taking away from what I’m able to determine simply by looking at the charts.
BUT, I will admit to one thing. I wouldn’t be here if I still didn’t believe that there got to be an indicator that would be superior to just looking at a candle chart alone for me. It’s from looking at naked charts and candles that I saw how I was determining strength based on candle movement. What I cannot do is look at all the 28 major pairs and figure out the strength since that would just drive me crazy, I can do that with 3-4 charts but I want to be able to do that with all of them and to get a single strength for each individual currencies. The way I see it, price goes where the strength is. The consolidation areas is when I need to enter towards the strength. One of my favorite patterns is the triangle pattern and then predicting which direction it would break. This gave me an idea for how we should test this indicator that eventually will get built.Test case: The currency strength indicator must be able to predict with a good enough accuracy which direction the price will break in a consolidation zone or when a triangle pattern has formed.
2. “Currency Strength” indicator should have PREDICTIVE nature (at least on smaller TF’s).
3. Based on #2 above – it can’t use standard MA’s, CCI, WPR, etc. – because (lagging, lagging, lagging…)Agreed!
4. “True” currency strength should manifest itself on other, related, currency pairs.
Could you please explain what you mean by this?
5. In order to avoid the inter-relations effect among currencies we need some EXTERNAL “anchoring” (KIAD’s terminlogy – already discussed here) as reference.
Agreed!
6. Question: Does individual currency “market share” factor should be used? is it logical?
We will have to experiment both scenarios before dismissing/accepting either I think
7. Question: When comparing currency pairs, should we use currency pairs “crosses? my experience shows that they introduce “noise”, but I’m open to others logic.
I think same as above. I would need to need to test both cases.. Shouldn’t be too difficult.
8. Question: How to deal with “Rate of Change”?
One solution I came up with is to use pure pips instead of ROC. For example, in an index type of an indicator, if we anchor it to certain place in time, then we can simply measure the change in pips and relate currencies to each other with pips. If the anchor was set to Midnight and now its 8am, I would end up with something like +600pips for JPY vs -200pips for USD total movement. Perhaps something similar for the currency strength as well?
What are the most earliest signals that a currency is strengthening (or getting weaker)? We don’t need ALL the obvious signs (too late and not predictive), just the 2-3 earliest signs.
Yes, this is a very good question. This is where naked charts come into play for me. I noticed a certain pattern that plays out indicating the strength of the bulls vs bears during consolidation and triangle patterns when I studied naked charts. Here is that indicator that I made: http://penguintraders.com/forums/topic/bull-bear-power-indicator/
There are a couple of screenshots there that I posted. I called that indicator power but its similar to strength. I haven’t made that into a multiple currency scanning indicator yet so I can get individual currency strengths. I think that will be my next step. I will show my progress on that threadFocus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
My Brothers, I Always Admire both of You.. for all the great knowledge that You share.. please continue this very important discussion.. until we could reach valuable result that will give benefit to our beloved community at this forum…
Thanks for the encouragement Kiads
You have done some amazing work with that EA of yours. Is that using an indicator that you made?Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
In order to avoid lagging by introducing MA’s – we can start by measuring actual “true move” in the related currency pairs.
For example:
For USD, the related pairs are EURUSD, GBPUSD, USDJPY, USDCHF, AUDUSD, USDCAD, NZDUSD (??? NZD has the least market share).
For those we measure the movement only from Open to Close – but in a RELATIVE manner, i.e Open to Close distance divided by High to Low.
In this way we eliminate the biased influence of large moves in highly volatile pairs. BTW, this step is missing from almost all “currency strength” indicators.
We combine the results above and add the possibility to multiply it by a factor (will be discussed later).
That resulted value is added to a “0” reference (KIAD’s Anchor…) point, which is the starting point of all currencies.
We repeat this process for the remaining currencies.
That’s our starting “mechanism”.
More filters, factors, etc. will be added later, in future posts.
G.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by
. I thought u got some secret weapon.
. I thought u got some secret weapon. Q) What does VWAP stands for??? [/quote]
just need to change MA settings and you will end up with different results.. anyways, I’m done arguing about this. Arguments can lose friendships and lets not go there 
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